Hidden agenda’s and content control.

Increasing numbers of bloggers have been barred from websites recently, I find there is an increasing number of talented and decent bloggers who clearly did not deserve this.

Out of the many decent bloggers who have been barred, I recognize that many have been critical of the higher levels of the US government and speculate that this may indeed be a factor.

No warnings are given, the real reasons are never clarified, they remain as secret as the MO behind each and every drone strike.
The crime appears to be passionately expressing your thoughts in a blog, but what if a moderator is being paid to promote content control or has a different personal agenda?
Barring people is rather pointless as the blogger will just set up another account and continue but I guess with a little more resolve than before. SF

  • Southernfink

    Over here Dizzy.
    Oh well more hidden agenda’s and content control,
    what are we allowed to write and what not , and if you are not sure what not to write there could be a moderator that will spell it out to you in capitals.
    Love you Aprez you are the best.

    • Dissenter

      I will keep on following you here. Most likely in the near future I will go over to Greenbeliever as I said before.once the drwings are out.

      • Southernfink

        Kool as Dissenter, I sometimes repost articles on this site and have even tried my hand at writing a short piece, the site belong’s to Aprezcoup, he is pretty Kool. Now you know where to find me (^^,)

      • Southernfink

        Here is that reply I was mentioning.

        A republic is hardly what can be used to accurately describe an improved polical system over the monarchy, I understand the reasons why you are for one, yet the alternative that you propose is hardly logical, what is needed is a government for the people and by the people and where humanitarian values will be put before the needs of the plutocracy, the argument for a republic is
        fallacious considering the corporately controlled political duopolies will continue unabated.

        The TPP does contain ISDS provisions and the LMP is keen to get it signed. http://www.theglobalmail.org/feature/abbott-open-for-business-and-multinational-lawsuits/700/

        The US political system is hardly worth mentioning as an example, it’s completely tainted by corporate influence, the best thing that could happen in the US is to stop corporate electoral donations and only accept capped donations from voters.

        I find it rather contradictory that you are all for the changing the
        Monarchy into a glorious Republic, all at the same time you privately inform me what I should not say on a comment thread, does the constitution not ensure freedom of political speech ? Maybe not in a Republic…. Hypocrisy much ?

        I am not for an Monarchy or an Republic, I would sooner endorse a political system that is for the people and by the people and not for the benefit of the Plutocracy.

        Peace out. ☮

        • http://www.byebyedemocracy.org/ kokanee

          The latest on the TPP:

          Holland: Lori, what questions should people ask about the TPP that weren’t asked about NAFTA?

          Wallach:
          Number one question to your member of Congress should be, have you read the actual full text of the agreement? Do you know about the investment
          rules that promote job offshoring? Do you know about the rules that require us to import food that doesn’t meet our safety standards? Do you know about the ban on buy American and buy local? If you don’t know, if you haven’t read those chapters—the investment chapter, the food
          chapter, the procurement chapter—then you cannot vote yes to approve this.

          Question number two: do you know this becomes binding US law limiting what Congress, states and local city councils can do as far as making domestic policy on all of these nontrade issues, and that not a word of this agreement can be changed unless all 12 countries agree? Do you understand that you are limiting the future of our democracy, indefinitely, on everything from internet freedom and our energy and climate policy to the prospect of having green jobs and an equitable economy? Do you understand that’s what you’re doing, i.e. throwing away your job as a Congressperson?

          And then the third question is: what single piece of evidence do you have that this trade agreement is
          actually going to create jobs here versus lose more US jobs and push down our wages? We now have free trade agreements with 17 countries. Show me a single one of those agreements in which we have gained jobs on net. Show me evidence from a single one of those agreements that the partner countries have reduced their poverty. Show me any of the past promises that are being repeated now by the same interests — the same corporate think tanks, the same companies — to push TPP which has come true. —http://billmoyers.com/2014/01/09/fool-me-once-20-years-of-nafta-show-why-the-trans-pacific-partnership-must-be-stopped/

          • Southernfink

            Brilliant reply thank you for taking the time to show that the TPP will effect all government’s no matter if they are A Republic or a Monarchy.

            Someone could ask US congress members, what is stopping you from finding the right answers to these rather important questions ?

            It’s the same everywhere we look, it’s simply not up for discussion but only on truly independent websites, it’s all a big secret ….hidden agenda’s and content control…

            • http://www.byebyedemocracy.org/ kokanee

              I’ve often claimed that I could turn the economy around in a heartbeat. But at what cost to the environment? We’ve also called for steady-state economy, sustainable living and converting our economy to a local agriculture based economy. But how to have comfortable life and tackle warming/climate at the same time seems too hard to even ask the question. Until now. Eco-socialism:
              http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/21215-beyond-growth-or-beyond-capitalism

              • Southernfink

                Excellent article, there are a few of these perpetual economic growth articles doing the round’s, I enjoyed reading this one so thanks for supplying the link.

                It all goes back to the present corporately controlled duopoly governments and the economic policies that are designed for perpetual economic growth, take corporate money out of politics is a step in the right direction while consumerism should change to durable products that can be repaired again.

                I like the therm Eco-socialism, while many are simply too brainwashed by the word Socialism, yet what the author and I have in common is that he describe it early on to the effect of for the people, by the people.

        • Dissenter

          I believe fully in freedom of speech and am shocked if it was true that your comments were deleted in this way.
          the comments I had deleted referred to the LNP as the WALKING DEAD.
          There were a lot of others that were moderated or just disappeared but as well I got someone elses ID on my Disqus as me and then a lot of other things happened. I had a comment inserted into my comment while I was writing it and it was rude and insulting and that is not all. A lot of other things. I am certain my d was hacked.
          There were a lot of trolls in over the last week.

          • Southernfink

            It’s true, how can I prove it to you or should I just post the entire exchange, minus the obvious details such as IP numbers and email addresses ?

          • Southernfink

            Are you there ?

            • Dissenter

              Yes. Sorry. I will wait online here to speak to you SF

              • Southernfink

                01/13/14 05:58 pm

                Southernfink comment.

                I really do not see how a republic would have any advantages over a monarchy when both will be controlled by the corporatocracy in the end

                I would sooner endorse a system where humanitarian values are put before corporate need’s…

                Catchy slogans such as who do we want to be ? is a fallacious statement….

                —————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–

                01/14/14 12:03 PM

                Southernfink comment.

                No one has actually made a logical case clearly stating the so called advantages that a republic could have over a monarchy…

                —————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–

                01/14/14 01:11 PM

                davrosz replied: Yes they have: http://www.independentaustrali

                —————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–

                01/14/14 01:16 PM

                Southernfink replied davrosz *Thanks for the link, the article is two years old, but I will read and comment on it, in particular I was referring to this comment thread.

                …but then I received an email on 14 January 2014 1:47 PM

                ”The article is as relevant today as it was then and was written by me, the founder of this staunchly republican website.

                And I would appreciate you not placing the same comment repetitively making a fallacious statement that no-one has made a case for a republic or explained the

                advantages. That is a totally ignorant comment, as hundreds of people have.

                Not everything in Australia is to do with “corporatocracy”.

                *Except on the comment thread it’s missing to whom I’m actually whom replying to…while I can still see it via context on the disqus roll.( then the disqus dash page was suddenly changed)

                —————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–

                01/14/14 01:38 PM

                davrosz replied:The republic would give Australians a huge lift, says Paul Keating. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v

                And I agree with him wholeheartedly.

                Not every single issue affecting Australians or their well-being can be devolved back to the TPP or the so-called “corporatocracy”.

                Symbols are important.

                —————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–

                01/14/14 02:34 PM

                Southernfink replied to davrosz

                With all respect Dave, the TPP was not even heard about back then and I do believe that it actually gives the whole topic an entirely different perspective due to the amount of power the TPP corporation’s will gain…I have nothing against the ARM, the complications are in the ISDS of the TPP.

                —————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–

                01/14/14 03:45 PM

                davrosz replied Southernfink

                With all due respect to you, conflating the republic with the TPP, a free trade agreement, is utterly ludicrous.

                —————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–

                01/14/14 04:32 PM

                Southernfink reply

                Not not really, your argument for a Republic is based on the fact that only someone born in Australia should hold the highest post in the country, no problem there… the real issue and the point I am making is related to the ISDS clause of the TPP which is making the nation accountable to the financial agenda of the TPP corporations….Republic or not, under TPP the nation will still be accountable to some outside organisation, if you really oppose an outside body as head of the nation it would be logical to oppose the TPP…

                And no the TPP has nothing to do with free trade, sooner the opposite, it’s all about corporations gaining the power to challenge existing laws and constitutions in a private tribunal using unelected officials and taxpayers funds as settlement, the TPP is being negotiated by corporations for corporations, if you are not sitting at the negotiating table then you are on the table…the meal…. why is it so secret if it’s so good for us ?

                http://www.theguardian.com/com

                Trade agreements, once signed, override national sovereignty and limit a country’s ability to regulate giant corporations, why does that not alarm you ?

                ”Imagine what would happen if foreign companies could sue governments directly for cash compensation over earnings lost because of strict labour or environmental legislation. This may sound far-fetched, but it was a provision of the Multilateral Agreement on Investment (MAI), a projected treaty negotiated in secret between 1995 and 1997 by the then 29 member states of the OECD (Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development) . News about it got out just in time, causing an unprecedented wave of protests and derailing negotiations.” By Lori Wallach source http://mondediplo.com/2013/12/

                what is the point of debating someone who deletes the replies they do not approve of…hidden agenda’s and content control edit

                —————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–

                01/14/14 04:39 PM

                davrosz replied

                That is only one of many arguments for a republic, if you had read the link I posted earlier. And supporting a Republic is not related to supporting opposing a TPP, which I note we have only seen drafts of anyway and have no real idea what may or may not be in the final version, or even if it will be completed at all. It may or may not contain ISDS provisions.

                However, the TPP, whatever clauses it contains, cannot and will not override Australia’s Constitution, because no law cannot do that.

                Again, conflating the TPP and republic issue is simply myopic tunnel vision. There is more to life than the TPP and “corporatocracy”.

                —————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–

                *How could he have read both my links and replied in under 7 minutes ?

                —————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–

                …then I received this text via email on 14 January 2014 1:47 PM

                ”The article is as relevant today as it was then and was written by me, the founder of this staunchly republican website.

                And I would appreciate you not placing the same comment repetitively making a fallacious statement that no-one has made a case for a republic or explained the

                advantages. That is a totally ignorant comment, as hundreds of people have.

                Not everything in Australia is to do with “corporatocracy”.(D)

                (where did my freedom of political speech suddenly go ?)

                —————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–

                And another on 15 January 2014 3:05 PM ”I’m deleting this comment because you referred to my private email correspondence

                with you. ( that was the comment I reposted on MC.)

                If you think an Australia republic will be in any way similar to the U.S. system then you are utterly uninformed and shouldn’t even be commenting on these matters. D

                —————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–

                15 January 2014 3:25 PM

                Wondering why my comment disappeared so I posted … to see if that would appear, just checking the system.

                I soon received this reply by email ”This comment has been deleted because it has no content.”

                —————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–

                And this one, NOTE COMMENTS BELOW (D)

                —–Original Message—–

                Sent: Tuesday, 14 January 2014 2:48 PM

                To: editor

                Subject: RE: New comment posted on Perhaps one day: The Governor-General’s republican vision

                Dave,

                At the moment the ”Perhaps one day article” only has 66 comment’s in the comment thread, therefore we could not have read hundreds of cases for a Republic.(SF)

                WAS NOT REFERRING TO COMMENTS BUT HUNDREDS OF ARTICLES ON THE REPUBLIC PUBLISHED ON THIS WEBSITE. COMMENTS IN THAT ARTICLE ARE NOT THE SUM TOTAL OF INFORMATION ABOUT THE REPUBLIC. READ MORE AND BECOME INFORMED.(D)

                http://www.independentaustralia.net/australia/republic/

                Your article ”The case for an Australian republic” is a fine article with many good point’s in it however, who was aware of the TPP at the time and the consequences it would mean, I think that would somewhat change things as everything can be contested under the ISDS clause of the TPP, a topic I am rather passionate about as it is designed to give corporations the legal means to challenge any government decision that is not aligned with the financial agenda of the plutocracy that Abbott’s LNP represent’s.(SF)

                THE TPP AND THE REPUBLIC ARE NOT RELATED APART FROM IN ONE RESPECT: A REPUBLIC IS ABOUT EQUALITY AND A TPP IS ANTI THAT. LINKING THE TPP, WHICH IS MERELY THE LATEST IN A LONG LINE OF GLOBAL FREE TRADE AGREEMENTS, IS NAÏVE AND SHOWS A LACK OF TRUE UNDERSTANDING OF HISTORY, ECONOMICS AND GLOBAL POLITICS.

                AND THE LABOR PARTY ALSO REPRESENTS THE ELITE PLUTOCRACY, DON’T THINK ABBOTT’S LNP ARE THE ONLY ONES LOOKING OUT FOR RICH ELITES.(D)

                I find that Australia is resembling a corporately controlled political system more and more, specially considering the introduction of the TPP.(SF)

                YOU NEED TO READ MORE HISTORY, NOT JUST COMMENTS ON BLOGS – THE WORLD IS NOT A CORPORATOCRACY, THE WORLD IS AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN A PLUTOCRACY. CORPORATIONS ARE MERELY MEANS TO AN END AND MULTINATIONALS ARE CONTROLLED BY A RELATIVELY SMALL NUMBER OF EXTREMELY RICH FAMILIES OF WHICH THE WINDSORS ARE PROMINENT (NOTE RIO TINTO). IF YOU BELIEVE IN FAIRNESS AND EQUALITY YOU WILL SUPPORT A REPUBLIC AND REALISE THAT THE TPP IS JUST A SMALL PART OF A HUGE MOSAIC. (D)

                With kindest regards SF (which is meant above the text in all caps)

                The article is as relevant today as it was then and was written by me, the founder of this staunchly republican website.(D)

                And I would appreciate you not placing the same comment repetitively making a fallacious statement that no-one has made a case for a republic or explained the advantages. That is a totally ignorant comment, as hundreds of people have. Not everything in Australia is to do with “corporatocracy”.(D)

                —————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–

                The last comment above here is where he has been chopping and inserting text into my reply to him via email, we all have our comments deleted from time to time and while that is not a big deal, I found it most unusual to have him both replying to me both on the thread and via email. regards SF

              • Southernfink

                Hey Dissenter, I get back to you here, I find that there is too much moderation happening and a distinct lack of freedom of expression.I shall remember him as deleting Dave

                To me it all goes back to the current batch of secret trade deals to which I give far greater importance than anything else as they are designed to over ride existing laws and constitutions in any nation that is silly enough to become a member, with the exception of the Ukraine where they are protesting against their governments decision not to join into a US led trade deal with the EU.

                Deleting Dave is not giving the TPP the exposure that he could be giving it, he is more concerned with The Republic which is ironic as even a republic will be constricted by the ISDS of the TPP.

                As always, if you want to find out the truth you must follow the money, which I why I ask whom actually stands to gain the most financially from the change from a monarchy into a Republic, considering big mining rules they have the most to gain, by getting the TPP signed they also gain quite a lot of permanent influence over government, while they can gain even more under a Republic, all we need to look at for example is the current political system in the US where duopolies rule and third parties never receive the either the funding or the exposure on the MSM.

                The case for a Republic looks great, but I find it’s misleading about whom really benefit’s, I am more interested in promoting a people’s cooperative where big corporations and the Plutocracy have no say over matters of government.

            • Dissenter

              I am in the same rooms as the computer doing my work. I will stay till 4pm waiting to speak to you.G

              • Dissenter

                Thank you for the benefit of this knowledge.
                From my viewpoint it highlights I guess that we are political animals and that the site exists for political purpose some of which is sensitive ground I guess.
                I do not support such censure myself but I am not an editor.
                I think if possible you should try not to be offended and continue to support the site with your knowledge and views as the site is the richer for it.
                The reason I say that is that the site has an audience which is national. We are in very difficult TIMES right now and the benefit of your input is unique.
                I hope you are well and that this did not cause too great distress. I know I would have felt disheartened by it.
                Keep on keeping on posting. it is HIGHLY VALUED.
                Your friend Gail.

              • Southernfink

                Thanks you for that reply, I think I made my point that it does not matter whether a nation is a R or a M due to the corporately controlled duopolies the change over from a M into a R will have little effect on the political system as the ISDS can challenge any of government’s decision.
                I also supplied him with a link to the latest Wiki leak which was in regards to the TPP, I re-posted that same article on this rather silent site while it was not taken up, it’s no big deal but what it does suggest is that IA is not interested…D also opposes the carbon tax just like Abbott does, if anything he proves a rather proud right winger actively engaging in hidden agenda’s and content control.

                I find the TPP is one of the most important issues of the day, it’s a silent global corporate coup D’ etat that is connected to the fake war on terror. ☭

              • Dissenter

                Yes I agree.
                In relation to the site it does not really matter what the politics of the owners and editors are so long as they support quality debate and are a true alternative to the pap. This is the case this far and the work supporting Thomson and even Slipper is also vital. It does tend to drive left viewpoints all over Aus and that is why it is valuable because we can support others in their electorates with their work.
                I am certain that in spite of the duopolies you would prefer to see Australia governed by left wing parties.
                I still believe we have the power to INFLUENCE government through the sites and the power to ensure change providing that the government is Labor with Independent and green support.
                The interesting thing is that now we are FACING groundbreaking change in the balance of powers and also the climate issues and these groundbreaking changes are going to throw up challenges that will shake the ALP out of its embedded practices as LNP landslide has done.
                It is a good time to be a catalyst of change even if only through posting.

              • http://www.byebyedemocracy.org/ kokanee

                Everything’s connected. Every one of “their” programs that gives them more profit and more monopoly power are connected. Likewise, every activist’s cause is connected as well.

              • purveyor1

                “Barnes and Elias battling for control of my soul”
                (Chris, “Platoon)

                Also, just for fun: (“Let that be your last Battlefield” 3rd season, Star Trek)

              • http://www.byebyedemocracy.org/ kokanee

                I need to see that movie again. ;)

                Elias though. ;)

              • purveyor1

                Even Chris (Sheen) had respect for Barnes at first. Then he was faced with the daily dichotomy of Elias and Barnes and their respective command and personal styles. “Chris” eventually learned the lesson that good doesn’t always prevail?

                Life isn’t fair, so always watch behind you or surround yourself with those you trust…

  • http://msjnews.net/ KB723

    This is an interesting post, I wish I had seen it when it was posted, I feel some mods are indeed paid or punished if they do note promote the agenda, by allowing the ones who follow the agenda and removing those who beg to Differ… I have also noticed that one particular site seems to be more on the agenda of sensationalism, only to promote ‘Clicks’ and to stir up the regulars, let me give you this as an example…

    The Headline reads:
    9-17-2013

    Black victim of car accident shot ten times by white officer

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/09/17/black-victim-of-car-accident-shot-ten-times-by-white-officer/

    The following post related to this post reads:

    10-14-2013

    Police shooting death of black car crash victim could test North Carolina’s ‘stand your ground’ law

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/14/police-shooting-death-of-black-car-crash-victim-could-test-north-carolinas-stand-your-ground-law/

    Notice how the former football players name was mentioned in the first post, and the next post nearly a month later his name was NOT mentioned, but he was still mentioned as a ‘Black Man’

    They don’t allow me to comment there any longer as I was not fitting the mold one evening, and when another poster mentioned that he/she had replied where I hang out (msjnews.net) using Disqus, that posters comment was also removed… They want all the clicks they can get, and if you mention another site that also has Disqus, you are putting yourself in harms way…

    To be honest I could Care Less, my reaction is simple, if they don’t want me ‘Advertising’ msj by mention or links to a story they may have up, and the one I have up backs their story but from another perspective, then I will simply no longer post their stories at msj, or (Advertise) their site if you will… Nor will I take a story and abuse the headline just to have folks drop by…

    I will also leave this link, which you may or may not find interesting, I think it’s a good read… And seems to meet where you were mentioning Mods, I am sure one of them was Stalking me from the first few weeks I had started commenting there, I had posted a link about Sandusky, and was just trying to mention I was surprised the story was not posted there and offered they could repost it, my comment was immediately removed and I was told if I had a story for them to share to email it to their office which I did, and the story never was posted, nor was my email replied to, Below is the Sandusky link and the other I said I would share below…

    http://nonlinearresonance.com/currents/index.php?topic=1868.msg9932#msg9932

    http://nonlinearresonance.com/currents/index.php?topic=1061.0

  • http://www.byebyedemocracy.org/ kokanee

    • http://mosquitocloud.net/ aprescoup

      In my household they all get along just fine ;)

  • Solid State Max

    Some higher ups on some sites are unpredictable too. I don’t know why they do it but if their aim is to divide people so that the ones not affected yet dismiss the victims as “paranoid” unless and until it happens to them, then they’ve no doubt done the ruling class elites plenty of huge favors.

  • http://www.byebyedemocracy.org/ kokanee

    This has been presented to me as a viable strategy. I’d like your thoughts on it:
    http://www.opednews.com/articles/Single-Issue-Voting-A-Tho-by-George-Flower-130405-781.html

    • http://mosquitocloud.net/ aprescoup

      I’ll post it to the front page.

      • http://www.byebyedemocracy.org/ kokanee

        Thx!

  • http://www.byebyedemocracy.org/ kokanee

    If you take the progressive site “Alternet” for example, you will see ten times as many anti-conservative or anti-Republican articles as opposed to anti-Obama or anti-Democrat articles. You will find zero third-party reporting. You will find many article analyzing the conservative or Republican mind and, again, zero articles on progressive or liberal thinking. What doesn’t get published is much more telling than what actually does get published. The take-a-way is that progressives are normal people and that conservatives are evil bat-shit crazy fascist Dominionists. There can’t be any compromise with such opposition. The right has been propagandized in the same way. We are divided and conquered. This site, mosquitocloud.net, is a deprograming site for both the left and right, to find common ground and oust our oligarchs.

    On the faux progressive movement:
    1. Paid to Lose: The Progressive Movement is a PR Front for Rich Democrats
    2. Self-kettling On Gatekeeper Sites
    3. Stop Me Before I Vote Again

    A quote from Stop Me Before I Vote Again:

    So either way we need the third parties: whether we expect them to grow and supplant the Democrats, or whether we expect them to put the fear of God into the Democrats and keep them honest, we need vigorous, serious, determined third parties that really mean business and won’t get frightened by their own success, as our pathetic “Greens” were in the 2000 election. Those of us who are not satisfied with the Democrats —and who is? — must resolve to give these third parties, election after election, the votes they need to grow and establish themselves, and not allow ourselves to be unnerved by the quadrennial banshee chorus of the Democrats, howling dismally in the graveyard of progressive causes. —http://stopmebeforeivoteagain.org/stopme/chapter15.html

    • Southernfink

      Hidden agenda’s and content control, what happens when a certain site runs into financial difficulties, donations wont cover it’s expenses but then makes up for it by selling advertising space, would it make sense if a lucrative advertising contract comes with a clause for content control, soon they need someone to enforce that.

    • Liberius Cato

      Yep. “Your people” tell you that we’re all a bunch of racist, sexist troglodytes that want to go all the way back to the caveman era, or if it’s the religious version, the worst possible mix of The Taliban and Medieval Europe. “Our people” tell us that you all want to turn this into the USSA, outlaw religion, and throw everyone that disagrees into the gulag. I don’t think that’s true for most of the actual partisans, though the pretend-moderates of the new aristocracy would probably love to ship every potential threat to their impending regime to the gulags.

      • http://www.byebyedemocracy.org/ kokanee

        Ha ha! You’re pretty funny. You forgot socialist, big government libtards who idolize Mao, Lenin and Stalin.

        • Liberius Cato

          Well, there’s that, but I thought I covered that under USSA. I’m starting to think that most of the Big Government impulse of the left is the creation of your version of the NeoCon, and the rest of you just kinda got dragged along with it because it was promised that a powerful government could give you more of what you wanted.

          NeoCons tried to do the same thing to us on the right, with Nixon being the precursor of the breed, and much of the Bush & Gingrich eras spent promoting their brand of nonsense. It ended up dying out over time as more of us got tired of being dragged along by a party that didn’t represent us. Eventually, we remembered that what we really wanted was a smaller government, not a Leviathan that’s always long on promise and short on delivery.

          One thing that would help the Republic as a whole, even if we don’t succeed in our experiment on reaching some kind of consensus, would be for more of the traditional left to start rejecting the New Democrats and their works. The Duopoly will have a harder time succeeding if it doesn’t have unchallenged control of both parties.

          • http://www.byebyedemocracy.org/ kokanee

            Yes, I’d say you had that covered with USSA but then again socialism and communism are not the same thing.
            So what do you make of “your” Tea Parrty?

            • Liberius Cato

              It’s a chaotic mess and it always has been, but it’s the best thing we’ve got on the right to really put a dent in the pretend-moderate duopoly’s hold on the Republican Party.

              Some basic facts about the Tea Party:

              1. It is not a religious movement. Many of us are individually religious, but people like me are firm advocates in keeping religion out of politics. Religion in politics is a Social Conservative (SoCon) thing, and SoCons are our second-biggest opposition within the Republican party, behind the NeoCons.

              2. The Tea Party is a lie. More like the Tea Parties. There’s a lot of groups, and each is a self-contained unit without much in the way of central direction. The astroturf groups that claim to be the Tea Party, notably the Tea Party Express, are largely ignored by the lot of us – except on the rare occasion when a broken clock is right twice a day.

              3. The Tea Party is not racist. We don’t like Obama. That’s putting it mildly. However, we don’t like him because he’s a totalitarian. You don’t need to add anything to that. We wouldn’t like a blond haired, blue eyed totalitarian either.

              4. We’re not nearly as dead as the Palace Guard Media would have you believe either. Did you know that there were tax day protests all across the country at Federal buildings, with numbers typically in the hundreds, up to thousands in places like DC? Barely even got a peep on the news.

              5. The only unifying things among all of the Tea Party groups is a sense that America is being screwed and the idea that a strict interpretation of the Constitution could help put a stop to the worst abuses. Anything else is really secondary to voting out the worst offenders and getting the government back on sound footing.

              • http://www.byebyedemocracy.org/ kokanee

                Liberius Cato —Thanks for this. It’s really great. We, non-Obamabots, on the left think Obama is a neocon plutocrat shill.

                Democracy Corps did a study and found that the Republican Party consisted of the following:
                Evangenicals: 30%
                Observant 17%
                Tea Party 22%
                Moderate 25%
                Other 6%

                I’ve done enough studying Republicans to last a lifetime. I’m more interesting in finding common ground and an alliance/collision. However, if you want to check out the focus group that Democracy Corps did next, here is the link:
                http://www.democracycorps.com/Republican-Party-Project/inside-the-gop-report-on-focus-groups-with-evangelical-tea-party-and-moderate-republicans/

              • http://mosquitocloud.net/ aprescoup

                Great link, assuming we can have some secondary confirmation- perhaps from LC-as to the proximate correctness of the assessment from Carville’s outfit. Seems fairy straight forward, thou…

                I couldn’t find a similar distribution break down of the Dem cohort, at the link.

                Ultimately “moderate” Republicans (center-left) and “moderate” Democrats (center right) represent the destructive economic forces in American politics.

                If the moderate center-left cohort of New Dem Obamabots represents a similar percentage on the left as their counterparts on the right, then the total of centrists who rule the country in favor of corporate socialism(USCS -I’m comfortable with this definition) is approximately 25% of each party’s voters, which leaves 75% of the voting public not only without representation, but gripped by revulsion towards this state of affairs. Seventy-five percent of the public did not vote for the centrist coalition’s policy agenda!

                Democracy – especially when rigged is complicated.

                The left has fronted neither a potent party insurgency like the TP, nor a third party movement drawing the percentage which the RP-Libertarians brought to bear.

                Having followed a few of LCato’s exchanges on the right, few seem to share his insights into the broader political dynamics in Washington. TPers seem to believe that 100% of the left is in lockstep with Obama, and those who are not are flaming anarcho-communists of the Saul Alinsky ilk, or worse.

                Blind ships in a fog-rich night, passing…

                Hell, maybe we don’t need “contractual” left-right alliances, even of necessity. Perhaps we should only agree to speak freely and in unison on issues and policies we all take offense to.

                75% of the public want Medicare protected, and even expanded. 80% want to see SocSec strengthened. Wall Street is in the doghouse and the Congress in the doghouse’s basement.

                Perhaps “we” only need to “simply” agree to separate real issues at hand, from the sparkle ponies of abstract ideologies, and confront them together; discreet issue, by issue.

                Sort of like: “Time out from hating on each other, guys. It’s time again for another rolling protest of public colors from Gadsden yellow through red and black and everything in between. This one is against…..”

                One argument against this display of public unity which reduces to an either or straw man proposition is that there is no shared goal beyond the nihilism expressed by invitations for Congress to resign…

                Another is that this is weak-kneed reformism, in place of a badly needed global revolution. But this one smells of ideological rigidity found in scientific/academic models of inorganic systems paralyzed by complexity, and of modeling to achieve desired outcomes rather than truths.

                The first gets a libertarian, Green, left socialist answer, and whatever other… let the people have more direct control over the disposition of their taxes – let them decide locally. And, let us not buy into the “big government can only fix the problem” canard that leads to a global governance by unelected, self empowered, few, ruling the affairs between of profit for the increasingly concentrated few, and the debt indentured other side of the ledger, describing the human condition as following a trajectory into something of a Bosh-like painting of the pits…

                Message to the Congress:

                Stop bailing out Wall Street with an asset bubble and channel, instead, the 85billion per month directly into the economy.

                Since 80% of the public barely have assets to speak of, and all this “priming” has seen 95% of gains go to the 1%, well then; hell on wheels, and fuck this financialized New Economy, this TINA, NAFTA/GATT/TPP, Shaddup!, Get used to it!, bullshit!

                The Dem party is very gung-ho on Public/Private Partnerships, aka, dirigiste privatization of profits/gains, and socialization of risk/losses. A transfer economy from the poor folk to the rich few; the EU model of North/South austerity.

                Other alternatives are being assiduously repressed by the vaunted institutions of higher learning, which have blessed us with 90% of the scum on the Hill—who should collectively be in jail for crimes committed against this nation, let alone humanity—and whose number in Congress is growing.

                The “moderate” Bookers, Christies, McAuliffs, but especially the absence of contestants to Dem incumbents from the left is embarrassing, to say the least. The TP, by contrast, have as much as declared the Chamber of Commerce ‘corpus non grata’ – wham bam, thank you fuckers! Won’t get fooled again! They are calling’em as they see’em. Knowing their own critters, they are calling it right in challenging the lot. But they know shit about the libertarian socialist/left-libertarian, mutualist, even Georgist strains of small and efficient, direct grassroots government.

                Our quibble, at bottom, is about a choice, from among other choices, of individualistic, free market capitalism v. forms of cooperative, mutualism, perhaps autonomous and unplugging from globalization – an idea that puts demand on imagination – so let’s get rid of cronyism and corruption, sucking Trillions from the public purse; the alphabet soup of departments, starting with the spooks, then the brass, then… while Wall Street’s finest are in the dock facing life. Maybe not revolutionary but a milestone, history changing event, still…

                TPers have been running and organizing on god given adrenalin, while the left has been exhibiting emotionally disconnected brain-freeze.

                I’d love to see a study on individual taxpayers ‘self allocation’ of Federal taxes across the major, at least, departments…

                ooops, I’ve been drifting..;)

              • Southernfink

                Drifting, hardly I quite liked that comment.

              • http://mosquitocloud.net/ aprescoup

                I think that I might have meant ‘droning’ instead, nevertheless appreciated. Thanks, SF.

              • Southernfink

                Your welcome, btw Have you heart any news about the fast track of the TPP, I am wondering if congress has a dead line, I did hear something that it was soonish.

              • http://www.byebyedemocracy.org/ kokanee

                Quite the rant! I’ll address it in pieces.

                On the Dems:

                From http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/09/02/sunday-review/a-new-guide-to-the-democratic-herd.html?_r=0 (watch the video) we have the following categories:
                Staunch Liberals
                Blue Collar Bloc
                Bootstrap Optimists
                Younger Independents
                Southern and Rural Democrats

                From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factions_in_the_Democratic_Party_(United_States) we have:
                Left Wing (Progressives, Liberals, Centrists (New Democrats), Unions, Christian Left, Secularists) Centrist wing (DNC, Conservative wing (Blue Dogs), Neoconservative wing
                Libertarian wing

                Ethnic minorities

                This is probably the most thorough study on the entire population (Dems, Repubs and Indies): http://www.people-press.org/2011/05/04/beyond-red-vs-blue-the-political-typology/
                New Coalition Dems
                Hard Pressed Dems
                Solid Liberals

              • http://mosquitocloud.net/ aprescoup

                I’m still digesting the excellent links, K…

                thanks!

              • Liberius Cato

                Long, but excellent. And I think you hit the nail on the head when you had the spastic fit of exclamations at one point. Perhaps our tactic should be to simply point at the pretend-moderates wherever we can and just yell BULLSHIT! as loud as we can.

                BULLSHIT! God, that’s liberating. Damn. We should have called ourselves the BULLSHIT! Party.

              • http://mosquitocloud.net/ aprescoup

                Heh, I’m for whatever is left once the bullshit I’m against is but a fading and bitter memory, for starters.

              • Liberius Cato

                Amen to that. Solving the duopoly problem is the big thing. We can worry about what’s after if we’re still free to worry about it and still able to vote about it.

              • http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/171598 BeachbikerCA

                I got the “drift…” How’s that? ;)

                Individual taxpayers’ self-allocation of Federal taxes– sounds like the bread & circuses conundrum?

                Very refreshing to hear Georgism mentioned! But not Tolstoyism? ;)

              • http://mosquitocloud.net/ aprescoup

                Hello BbCA!

                I’d be interested in seeing how many billions would be allocated by the public to the MIC, to corporate, financial sector subsidies and the psychocratic spooks, if we could just write in percentages for our taxed income allocation ourselves.

                Yours and my, allegedly progressive/liberal congress critters, are neither yours or mine, judging by their voting record. Paraphrasing from 007′s Casino Royale, where Chiffre is a stand in for Wall Street, and traitor Matthis for the Dem party:

                Wall Street: “I’m afraid your friendly Dems are really…our friendly Dems.”

                It doesn’t get much simpler than that.

                Subscribe to MC, get cast as an author, and go off—like SF in this post—on Georgism, via Michael Hudson or straight up.

                A few paragraphs to get our wheels reeling, plus a link or two, is good karma ;)

              • http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/171598 BeachbikerCA

                Didn’t mean to annoy or agitate with anything I said here. I don’t think I’ve ever corresponded with you before… I just found it very surprising and interesting to actually hear anyone invoke Henry George in anything. He’s usually heard from more subliminally through others that have been influenced by his economic philosophy– like Milton Friedman and, Ralph Nader… I believe more than a few undergrads go through school without ever hearing the name– or the term Georgism. How many even know that Monopoly, the board game, was actually inspired by it… I threw in the “Tolstoyism” reference probably for chuckles and having some parallel thought of how nice it would be for the religionists to resurrect and adopt that and sequester themselves off somewhere very remote. Interesting how Pope Francis was recently quoted as saying “ideological Christians” were a serious illness… I’m fat-fingering all this on a “smart” phone, so I’ll cut it off here… Cheers! And good karma back at-cha!

              • http://mosquitocloud.net/ aprescoup

                Between byebyedemocracy.org, and MC, we’ll have ample opportunities.

                I like Papa Francis’ comment.

                When Obama’s mouthpiece similarly pissed on the ideologically predisposed “professional left,” I found it far less edifying – http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/113431-white-house-unloads-on-professional-left

              • http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/171598 BeachbikerCA

                This is great stuff to know– and should be out more in the public view for others to get and grasp, too– but of course isn’t because of the sanitizing of the media of any element that espouses anything that offers these kinds of perspectives and information– which of course, is the subject of the blog here… This has been a great experience so far being over on this site and the “brown and white” one SF invited me to– I believe far better than the whole experience with places like AlterNet. I’ve always felt some kind of disconnect there. Have intended to chuck all this shit 19 times already for better things to do– which I suppose is what is intended by the PTB… Anyway– Getting out of the South over a year ago for the west coast was enlightening– experiencing others outside the Southern bubble of dysfunctionality– meeting people (for real) who have said many of the same things you have here.

  • http://mosquitocloud.net/ aprescoup

    Seems to me that much of the “left” (partisan) alternate media which arose during the Bush regime against the substantially pro status quo MSM, has itself become pro status quo with the arrival of Obama. The few marginally critical pieces tend to be drowned out by an avalanche of conformist to the idea of keeping the public divided opinion fare, whose aim it is to keep the dissenters contained with morsels of legitimacy.

    I’ve noticed that as long as the dissent is veering left from the Dem party while continually spewing venom in the direction of the right, offense is not taken. But the moment that the idea of a public, post partisan(bipartisan,) left-right, anti-establishment, coalition is advanced, such comments tend to be looked upon with alarm.

    After all, containing class warfare by keeping half of the class pitted against the other half, using all means of divisiveness available, is the definition of gatekeeping. And being that we are one year out from midterms, the clamp-down on third-party, let alone class conscious dissent, will be increasingly enforced.

    • Southernfink

      Excellent points, political content control is everywhere, from Murdoch’s media empire to the recent extreme example of a Chinese journalist Chen Yongzhou’s who was critical about a state owned company, I find his televised confession ”where is claimed he accepted bribes in return for posting critical comment” a little hard to believe to say the least.
      http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-26/an-arrested-chinese-reporter-in-television-confession/5047932

    • Liberius Cato

      Spot-on. A house divided against itself cannot stand, and the MBM as we call it on the right (Make Believe Media) is in the business of keeping us divided, precisely for that reason. A distracted public at each other’s throats isn’t able to resist the continued power grab by the new aristocracy.

    • http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/171598 BeachbikerCA

      Speaking of the clamp-down on 3rd parties– there’s been conversations here and there about the style and methods of the various Internet sites– AN and the rest– not just their complete lack of articles/discussion of 3rd’s, but the current “sanitizing” of individuals obviously vocal in espousing other options… I was just recalling a broadcast exactly a year ago by Lawrence O’Donnell (Last Word 10/24/12) calling attention to the 3rd party presidential debate in Chicago– Johnson, Stein, Anderson, Goode. O’Donnell also spoke out about the “solid corruption of the two-party system…” I recall thinking at the time, well, this is fucking new! I haven’t noticed any other broadcasts since saying or doing anything similar to O’Donnell… Was he slapped down for it? He’s still on. Is the sanitizing process including television broadcasting, too? For sure it is. But how long can you keep people gagged? This Gleichshaltung…

    • Solid State Max

      Speaking of “hidden agenda”, check this out (
      http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/11/12/free-screening-and-discussion-unmanned-americas-drone-wars
      ). A place that’s filled with Obama/Demo pr partisans and is
      “controlled” by those who have relatives in their families working as
      trained drone operators and proud that he doesn’t have to get in harm’s way doesn’t seem to be a coincidence anymore. I’m feeling less like going back there anymore now that I found out though there might be some good folks there to keep me from completely abandoning it. There used to be a time when self-righteousness would be monopolized by the Bush/Limbaughian Repugs but after seeing that one and the self-righteousness among ACA diehards, it looks like the righties don’t have a monopoly on self-righteousness anymore.

      • http://ows.ettruck.com/ Ric Frye

        Hey Max! Good to see ya. Best wishes for a very happy new year!

        Been getting a lot of flack from Dems lately with the old “If it’s not a vote for us, it’s a vote for the Repugs no matter who you voted for” schtick. I think they are scared spitless, so they are going to be vituperative and reactionary if you are not in complete agreement with them. They are going to alienate many Indies and Lefties who could make great allies, just like last time out when they alienated people from the left of their center-right position because Rove said he was going to have minions trolling, pretending to be dissatisfied Obama voters. So many of the Dems jumped down the throats of any actual dissatisfied Obama voters and non-Dems as Rovian spies. I doubt there were more than the usual election trolling from the RWNJ because those Dems did Rove’s work for FREE! He played them like a ukelele and they ate it up.

        All I know is calling me a Republican troll is never going to endear me to the idea of voting for their candidates. Can’t wait to see what they get suckered into this time!

        • Solid State Max

          Hi Ric, Happy New Year to you too. It all depends on which site you’re referring to. Some such as Raw Story and Mother Jones are filled with such cults in the discussions under the political articles. RS used to be somewhat balanced between us serious left and political “left” but most of the former left the site. I’ll usually comment under the non-political articles there at the most but occasionally I’ll give it a go under articles where there’s the usual politics if I think that there’s a shot at a reasonable conversation and not the usual verbal abuse though I don’t mind the downvoting. On Alternet, it’s usually balanced and the debates can get interesting. There are some articles there where the discussion is expected to be reactionary D.

          I’ve been through the “Republican troll” ad hominem attack over the years and figured that it’s a matter keeping cool and calm while sticking to substance that’ll usually put the attackers to shame. Time can also be our friend in getting some of those “Republican troll” attackers to understand and sympathize with us. As George Thompson of “Verbal Judo” would often say, try to stay empathetic and no matter what your opponent does to make it personal, keep it professional. Only they can decide whether to lay off the ad hominem attacks or make themselves complete jackasses in the end.

          • http://ows.ettruck.com/ Ric Frye

            It’s interesting when they forget we are all “talking to the room” on these boards and say stuff like you are the only person who is going to hear it this second, let alone much later.

            I’m for the same accountability for down votes as for ups, although the opposite could be an interesting sociological experiment, for somebody, or even just for lulz in some places.

            I can keep it fairly pro, but it’s hard not to be a little curt at times.

            At any rate, good to bump into you again. We don’t have wooden currency anymore, so, don’t take any un-encrypted bitcoins!